So here are my dumb questions/comments of the day. I'm still getting used to the whole county-wide district thing as opposed to town-run school districts. But why don't residents get to vote on school budgets? And what about school taxes? I never hear about them. (I rent so I don't know the taxation rate here...I've honestly not paid attention to it.) The schools here, while perhaps award-winning, are SO run down. Their technology is years behind - if they are allowed to use it at all (my son attends a school where the administration is anti-technology). Why not redistrict instead of closing? Why is the county losing students when housing is growing?

CS - I believe you mean property taxes are the primary funding for schools. Income taxes may be a part, but property taxes are primary..

While we have declining enrollment now, it is projected to increase again in 6 - 10 years. If we close schools now, we'll have overcrowding later. A very short-sighted solution.

I like the idea of closing the school board building and moving its functions to vacancies within school facilities. The proceeds could fund a vo-tech renovation. This might require some redistricting, but at least we'd still have all the schools when we need them later. Office space can be leased, schools can't.

Lastly, Carroll County recently cut taxes and currently has a budget surplus. Some of the commissioners just aren't willing to use our revenue to fund schools adequaterly for the short term or plan for the long term.

In NY there is a school tax that is separate from local and property taxes. The schools are also light years ahead of the ones here in terms of facilities - even in the "poor" districts. School boards are elected, and town residents get to vote on the budget every year.

I'm still trying to get used to a school district without a pool, without technology centers, and without whiteboards in the classrooms. (And don't even get me started on how awful the lunches are!)

Wouldn't redistricting help alleviate all the population distribution problems? I can see issues, however, with those who may buy a home because it is in a specific school area, only to find in 5 years that changes.

"...Make no mistake I understand that may create inconveniences for some families who might be redistricted..."
Are you kidding me???? I find it sooo interesting that Commissioner Rothschild continues to ADVOCATE for a school closing, but has not once suggested that the brand new middle school currently under construction in HIS district, be halted! WHAT A POLITICIAN!

Robin Nicole - We don't have municpal school districts in Maryland. We have county school districts. And, for the last few years, Maryland has been ranked #1 for the quality of K-12 education. Within Maryland, Carroll County is one of the best districts.

We DO elect our school board here. However, we don't vote on the budget. The school board drafts a budget and works within constraints from the commissioners to get it approved. If we want to influence funding, we have to particpate in the public meetings and tell the school board and the commissioners what the public wants. If that's not successful, we replace them at the next election.

I'm sorry this is not what you're used to. But, it's how it works here. It keeps our taxes low and our education is excellent. It's not perfect, but I'd take it over municipal school districts any day. (I spent decades in one.)

And I would take the municipal district I left behind any day over what we have here. I guess it's all what you are used to having. I can appreciate having good teachers, but there is far more than teaching children to take a standardized test. And, as I've said before, I refuse to let my child be "left behind" because he has no knowledge of technology...I'm taking that education on myself. That never would have been an issue outside of here - and it may not be an issue outside of our specific school.

Where is the new middle school being built?

Why does Rothschild always speak to the serious issues here on Patch....?
I'd love to hear Shoemaker's take on the current situation...he always seems to be in hiding from the real issues that face Carroll, while playing ordinance games on the public dime.
STEP UP TO THE PLATE SHOEMAKER !!

The idea of closing schools has been championed by one commissioner - Richard Rothschild. As usual, he believes he knows better than the professionals at the Board of Education. He knows more than the federal government, state government, the county's own Department of Planning, Management and Budget, and the list goes on.

He has failed to address a number of critical questions: What happens to the building once the school is closed? Is it left to sit unused and deteriorate? Who would be responsible for maintenance and security? If the building is sold and enrollments increase how quickly can a new site be located within the area, the land purchased, and a new school constructed? How many millions will it cost to acquire the land and build a new school? If schools are closed redistrictings will need to occur. Will children be moved to schools even further from their homes? How will this impact the recently revised bell schedule/bus routes?

Rothschild spouts these half baked ideas : "Let's close a couple of schools!" but doesn't explain exactly how it will be accomplished. It seems as if he figures the next Board of Commissioners can solve the inevitable fallout from these grandiose plans. Someone is going to have to pay for this mess when Rothschild has moved on and I have a feeling it will be the taxpayers.

I want to know why the education budget keeps being cut when Shoemaker and Howard stated at the public forum that the county is NOT broke?
What I asked at that forum (and still want to know!), is - what are the alternatives to closing a school? If a school is not closed to save money, then what else will be cut? I'd rather have a school close than the quality of education go down.
Please stop cutting money from education, Commissioners! We cannot fund our schools at the bare minimum.

Here is some data that will help frame the discussion: Today, we have excess capacity of more than 4,000 seats. By 2018, that excess capacity will approach 5500 empty seats. Assuming (in 2018) that enrollment starts increasing, we will still have 4,000 seats MORE than we'll need in 2023. So where does this leave us? We could reduce today's excess capacity by 1/3 and still have enough reserve growth capacity to take us well into the timeframe of 2025-2028.

RIGHTSIZING our system and reducing overhead expenses will free-up funds that can be redirected into the remaining classrooms that are actually occupied. And there's another benefit... Reducing overhead expenses will protect teachers jobs and protect programs by reducing the amount of money wasted to heat, cool, maintain, repair, and operate empty classrooms.

Finally, the cost per student of a public education has been increasing at an alarming rate for the past ten years. It now exceeds $12,600 per student. This exceeds the cost of most private schools in Carroll County, and the costs per student will continue to increase at rates that exceed inflation based on the current business model and overhead structure.

Citizens should thank Superintendent Guthrie and members of the Board of Education that have agreed to tackle this challenge.

Empty classrooms do not contribute to the quality of education.

- Commissioner Richard Rothschild

I'd like to hear Supt Guthrie's thoughts on the suggestion of moving the admin buildings to one of the less-than-full school bldgs. He's a decent guy who truly believes in our kids' education. I'd also like to know where Commissioner Frazier's kids are/were educated - I have feeling that may be what's behind her burning desire to close some of our public schools. And finally, I'd like to know why Commissioner Rothschild is so quick to reply to discussions in this type of forum, but when presented with questions during official meetings, he picks and chooses who he responds to and on what topics. Don't be fooled! Rothschild is just like Mitt Rmoney and Paul Ryan - his numbers may sound impressive, but they don't stand up to the fact-checkers! All smoke and mirrors. The key to funding education in Carroll County is REAL economic development - and I'm talking about real industry, npot a fast food pace on every corner. When are they going to fulfill their campaign promises on that? What have Jack Lyburn and his cohort done since the big reorganization that the commissioners all crowed so loudly about? Answer that one, Mr. Rothschild!

It is interesting to note that the commissioners who have been most supportive of our schools are those who have had children in our system.

If you think the quality of your child's education will not be impacted, think again. Fewer classrooms equal larger class sizes. You can't close a school, move children into the remaining schools and NOT see an increase in class size. I wonder how closing schools will protect teacher's jobs? Is Rothschild promising no teachers or other school staff will lose their jobs? Commissioner Rothschild would have everyone believe there are classrooms sitting empty this is just not so. There are areas such as media centers, band, music and art rooms that are counted as classrooms and serve the entire school population not just one class-but those areas are still necessary. There are services that must be provided such as ESOL, speech therapy, occupational and physical therapy that require classroom space. Sadly, when school become overcrowded these services are pushed out into hallways and alcoves. The children deserve more than a bare bones education. Rothschild seems to believe the children are simply numbers on a page. Running a school system is not like running a warehouse and children are not boxes of widgets.

Patch should interview Shoemaker regarding this issue....pull him out from under the rock...

Buck - Your logic is right on target. However, has he specifically stated LHS is under consideration for closure? The rumors are going wild over this one so it would be nice if it came straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Perhaps we could all wait until the options have come out instead of getting our knickers in a wad.

I'd like to know why Outdoor School is such a sacred cow in Carroll County. If Outdoor School had been eliminated starting this year, the bus schedules would not have had to be re-structured and those jobs could have been saved.

Instead, a handful of jobs are preserved at Hashawa, and teachers and school nurses are paid overtime to supervise Outdoor School. Parents who don't want to send their kids to Outdoor School are coerced into doing so. Kids who don't want to go, have to go so they can get the credit.

Even the tragic and negligent death of a camper/student a few years ago couldn't shut down this outdated mandatory activity. Why any school district in this day and age would want to continue taking on the cost and the liability of overnight camping for all the sixth graders in the school system is unfathomable.

Bottom line Shoemaker & Howard support funding and improving schools, the others don't. The Tea Party anti-government agenda is all of their goal and not surprisingly the numbers locally are no more viable than they are nationally. Stripping away all development controls and abdicating government's responsibility for protecting our quality of life are not good conservatism; they are a recipe for disaster. The schools would have been fine had the school board and last board of Commissioners just had a spine. Building a $74 million HS we didn't need without state funding dug the hole. Rothschild, Frazier & Roush want to bury us in it.

North Carroll and Manchester Valley and only in the 50% range as far as capacity. Winters Mill is in the mid 90s so much closer to capacity. It makes sense to consolidate some of the schools in the northern part of county and redistrict the entire county. If LHS is under consideration it would be absolutely insane based on the numbers of all the high schools in the south Carroll area.

Newsjunkie- Your assumption that consolidating schools must lead to increased class sizes would only be true if there were no "receiving space" ; but there is. Properly programmed, consolidation will not increase class size.

Also, in regard to your earlier criticisms, I will simply say this: Leadership begins with someone stepping forward to lead when a need arises. A trajectory leading us in the direction of 5500 empty seats is a compelling metric that warrants investigation, debate, and consideration.

Would you prefer a county commissioner that learned of this substantial excess capacity and remained silent? I believe I would be abdicating my responsibilities to the people of Carroll County if I simply ignored this matter. Now, you and others have the opportunity to at least participate in the discussion. Right?
-Commissioner Richard Rothschild

Buck-
The decision to fund the construction of Manchester High solely with county funds, and no state aid belonged to the prior Board of Commissioners, NOT Shoemaker (who was a mayor at the time). Regardless, the county was operating in an environment of "Real Estate Gone Wild", and apparently the prior board(s) got too bold in their decisions. Clearly, the construction of Manchester was a game changer. But it matters not. No one promises any of us a perfect situation. My job is to take the hand dealt to the taxpayers of this county, and make the best of it. - Commissioner Richard Rothschild

Rothschild says, "I believe I would be abdicating my responsibilities to the people of Carroll County..." Sorry, Commissioner. You were elected to serve District 4. How about sticking to that charge?

Mr. Rothschild is correct. He did try to derail the Mount Airy Middle School project. He tried his best, but just couldn't do it.

Get that? Mt Airy parents, are you remembering that for the next election? He tried to STOP the much-needed new school. And now he wants to create a voucher program and close schools and fund remaining schools at the minimum allowed by law! This is the man YOU allowed to be elected! Remember well come 2014. This is not someone who wants to help your kids!

With the turmoil these commissioners have brought to our county, especially Mr. Rothschild, we must hope and pray that there is something left of our county by the time 2014 comes. Let's pray that our Board of Education can find a way to keep our school system strong despite commissioners who view our schools as a burden rather than an asset, and who are attempting to reroute public school funding to home schoolers and Christian schools through this ridiculous voucher program that is unfit for a county with one of the best school systems in the state and USA. Anything for the developers, but nothing for the kids -- Mr. Rothschild, here's your 2014 campaign slogan.

I want to know what the alternative is to closing a school? Close a school or...? Will programs be cut? And again, WHY does money need to be cut from education when there's no need to cut it? Just to say you (the BOC) did? The education budget will naturally go down with the predicted decline in enrollment (less teachers needed, etc), so why all the fuss to cut even more money? I don't get it. If the quality of the schools goes down, less families will choose to live in Carroll.

These commissioners, especially Mr. Rothschild, are risking the future of our county. Since they seem to love the war analogy, "The Fighting 59th" has declared war on our cherished school system and quality of life! We must fight back, and better do it now, before we lose what matters, because once it's gone, it's gone.

I would ask Mr. Guthrie to make public all of the criteria by which he will determine the solution(s) he will recommend be taken, and how much of the budget is required to service fixed debt (e.g., contractual obligations and the like). Also, for planning purposes, I would remind Mr. Guthrie that "inefficient" is not the same as broke, and to that end, does his budget have a set-aside fund for capital asset replacement.

I like the idea that the administrative office building in Westminster be vacated and rented out for other businesses to occupy the space and move the school administrators to some of the existing schools so they can be accessible to parents and students. It is necessary to be financially competent and closing a school here and there would eliminate wasteful spending. Maybe Liberty High can be rented out to Carroll Community College and the school could offer a satellite campus for the South Carroll community. It could serve a useful purpose and if the population increases down the road, than Liberty could reopen.

Shrinking school population should mean smaller classes but my child who is in the third grade has thirty kids in her class.

Look at the official enrollment report on the CCPS web site and you can see where the low enrollment schools are. There is no factual basis for closing schools in the south county. http://www.carrollk12.org/admin/facilitiesmanagement/planning/enroll.asp

Sue Keller - in response to your comments re: Outdoor school .. are you CRAZY? Outdoor school is a wonderful learning experience that many counties in MD do not get. If YOU dont want YOUR child to attend, then by all means, keep YOUR child home! I went to outdoor school 31 years ago, as a 6th grader, and those memories and experiences are still forefront in my mind!
The bus routes/schedule chamges should have changed a long time ago, regardless of the economic situation. It just makes the best business sense! If there is an opportunity to save $1,000,000.00, then for Gods sake, it should be done!
Commisioners & BOE - PLEASE do not close Outdoor School, ever! The staff at Hashawha is amazing, the program is second to none, and the kids absolutely love it!