FINALLY, a politician who is reading AND honoring the Constitution!!!! Bravo Commissioner Frazier!!! These arguments will define who on this BOC is a true "small government" conservative and who is not....THIS is how you do it...There is NO authority in the Constitution for the government to fund parks with tax payer dollars...

"Even though it's nice and and does probably add to quality of life in the county, it's not one of those core roles of the county," Bartlett-Frazier said.

Wow. But this small government champion thinks the appropriate role of government is to define who is welcome here via legislation restricting marriage between loving adults, and legislation determing what ethnicities are welcome here via dubious "official language" laws. Keep up the good, core work of Government. The latter activities are much "nicer" and clearly add more to the "quality of life in the county." Really?

Funny how people quote the Constitution when it benefits them and then ignores it or quotes other things, such as the Bible for other issues not found in the Constitution when that benefits them.
Just because something isn't required, doesn't mean it isn't a good thing.
And how does one account for all the external benefits that providing such services brings to the county - such as extra visitor or even residents out and about for the day - spending money on food, gas, etc.

Wake up ! Obviously Barlett-Frazier and joann havent traveled much to our neighboring counties. The facilities in our county compared to our neighbors are very inferior. If it wasn't for hard working volunteers that work on these fields, our athletes would be playing on the worst fields in the state of maryland. When you have some time Robin and Joann, take a drive to Western Regional or Blandair Fields in Howard county. Another option is Northwest or Reistertown Regional Park in Baltimore County to see the nice TURF FIELDS ! If you wish to visit Oakdale High school in Frederick off Rt. 70 you'll see the same. These facilities also have nice pavillions with bathrooms instead of port-a johns. Carroll County can do better for each citizens.

Unfortunately Carroll is ruled by Commissioners that were placed by party line over brain power, and it has really shown by their actions. None stop dumb political agenda which tends to dis serve the citizens of Carroll....what a backwards bunch of goof balls...

All of FARC's programs are self-sufficient (Sykesville Baseball, Freedom Fitness, Lacrosse, Soccer, etc.) and run by VOLUNTEERS. This already saves the County MILLIONS of dollars each year. Howard County has paid employees that do what FARC does for free (via volunteers) already.

Maintaining fields and facilities is costly, so we raise money to bridget the gap between what the County is willing to pay and what is needed.

We are always running fundraisers to bridge the gap. Example: this Saturday, October 6, 7:00 PM, Freedom Optimist Hall we are having a crab feast to raise money for recreation programs (another example, The Taste of Eldersburg, scheduled for May 5, 2013).

So, if you are living in Carroll because the tax rate is lower, and are a true believer in the government not paying for this kind of service, you need to buy tickets and go to these fundraisers. Can't go? No excuse, buy tickets anyway.

Put your money where your mouth is. No money, volunteer your time. We need you to keep YOUR taxes low.

Support your local recreation council programs.

Really, the Parks & Recs are the ONE thing that I don't mind my taxes paying for.
Plus, the State and County get additional funding from the Federal Government.
We need people to enjoy the Parks & Recs. in Carroll County and not PAY a fee to use them, since they are PUBLIC Parks.
THIS is one Government Program that benefits ALL people in Carroll County by providing low cost programs for the kids to play instead of getting into trouble.

YES we should be funding the Parks.

If you charge user fees and expect the parks to be self-sufficient, you will kill the entire program. While they need to be run efflciently, they need funding from the government, and they need the volunteers who cover the things the county does not. Our parks work because of the relationship between the county & the community. There are other more pressing things that I wish the commissioners would focus on.

County Parks are not a business. If they were a business they would be trying to make as much money as possible, not just be self-supporting. An amusement park--all paved over and filled with rides and games that people pay for--that is a business. A park of trees and grass and ponds and ball fields doesn't generate much income, except for admission and user fees. If the parks are forced to become "self-sufficient" the admissions could very well mean that many people could not afford to use the parks. And while placing the onus on volunteers sounds high-minded ("We will all pitch in together to make this work!") I suspect that many of the people who balk at having a few of their tax dollars go to fund parks would not want to spend their personal hours volunteering there. I volunteer a lot and I know that it is usually a very small number of people who volunteer so that others can enjoy the benefits.

If improving the quality of life of county residents is not a core mission of the County, I don't know what is.

Start charging entrance fees for the parks. Make the playground equipment coin-operated.

Hopefully the homeless will be issued free passes if the need to rest in an area that's not considered loitering arises..

As well as asking the parks & rec department to be self funding, the commissioners are currently forecasting declining enrollments and discussing closing schools. I think they are likely to see enrollments decline as they take away many services that add to the quality of life in Carroll County. Many of us CHOSE to live here. By this I mean, I had a choice and other home buyers have a choice. I looked at the programs, libraries and schools of Carroll County and chose it over Howard County. If the commissioners continue to try to cut schools and parks, I can see where many people would not make that choice. While some people quote the constitution and hail that as a victory, remember that the property values of Carroll County are dependent upon this being a place people want to live, a place people CHOOSE to buy a home.

Isn't "to promote the general Welfare" in the preamble to the Constitution? General welfare in my mind would mean the Carroll County community - all of us not some of us, in particular the kids who can't yet speak for themselves with a vote. Good luck on your implementation plan. Give and take is part of the American system and produces innovation - these web sites may help.

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/fact-sheet/public-facilities-public-parks-and-recreation

http://www.eppley.org/about/history-a-mission

Purely another ridiculous idea from perhaps the most ridiculous person we have ever had the misfortune to have elected as Commissioner (twice now!). As Tracy indicated above, our rec programs are already 100% self-sustaining and without the prodigious help and donations of the many parents and volunteers involved, Carroll County wouldn't have rec programs at all for our kids. Our facilities and fields are simply atrocious when compared with other responsible counties. Our total park & rec county investment is barely $2 million a year, which is five times less (or more) than any neighboring jurisdiction and this includes the operations of the 2 county operated parks. County park & rec staff in Westminster is less than 4 people and we rely 100% on project open space for all new capital improvements. It doesn't get any leaner than this, yet this idiot Frazier wants to cut it back even more. She wouldn't understand the definition of quality of life if her life depended on it. But that's the Tea Party mantra, cut taxes and government...the facts don't matter, just believe! She may be a nut and thankfully, she represents a minority opinion on this issue, but that doesn't mean she still isn't dangerous. But how do you think this makes anyone connected with Park & Rec feel about her being so disconnected from reality?

Yes. Public funds should be utilized to pay for parks. I agree too with the statement that "quality of life" should be a major concern of our civic leaders. Parks and public places, for the good of all people. Parks help to preserve open spaces for community well-being now and for the future. They are a good use of public funds and land.

With out the parks and recs programs what would children have to do? These communities they build in this county offer very little if any of activities for them(playgrounds, basketball courts, tennis courts, or even an open area for soccer or football). So take this funding away and all the programs fees of any sport would go up. So then we would see less participation and kids running around with nothing to do. Then they would complain of higher crime problems and wonder why.

Joe Eldersburg....try to be a bit more tolerant......LOL!

BTW Patch administrators...one of you screwing around with my account again??? I am supposed to get updates on new comments which I am not getting. I know you are a seriously left leaning media source and it infuriates you that I don't buy into your agenda but would you kindly stop messing with my account???

The Federal government runs the National Parks system; the State government runs the State Parks system and other counties in Maryland run park systems. Carroll County should likewise run a parks system that is available for everyone to use. Taxes should continue to pay for these systems. Isn't this the same commissioner who said during the school funding discussion, "Why do we need to be best? What is wrong with being mediocre?" Isn't it also the same commissioner who states that we do not have money to implement programs yet demands annual cuts in the real estate tax? Where is the logic? How can we attract new residents and businesses without offering services?

Can you show me where there is the authority in the constitution for the federal or state or local government to be buying kayaks? Lol! It isn't there..Most of what government does is done without authority....it's called sedition...

A toll is a tax...that is typical seditious methods that government uses to raise revenue when they have an addition to spending....And I'm not surprised to hear your tired of hearing what our body of laws say....they also say I have the right to speak out against government, just like you do....so, until I get hauled away to Gitmo, I'll continue to speak Ahole..

Both parties have acted in a seditious manner towards the Constitution however, this current President and Governor appear to believe they are Kings..The tolerance remark was a joke...because the left always demands it from the right and then behave viciously towards those who oppose them just like you exhibit Ahole....

What is the difference between taxpayer $$ paying for something or private $$? Choice, that's what. Those who use it, pay for it just like anything else. For those who live in a neighborhood with common grounds and playgrounds you pay HOA fee and think nothing of it...but you have a choice of whether you want to do so when you contract for the home. Because taxpayers are so strapped right now, it makes good sense for the executives of our money to look for places to cut that will be least felt...

Are the public parks owned by the government or the people?

As to JoAnn's postings all I can say is: Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

As to the funding of P&R, that while most of Rec Councils are self funding for rec sports, where the county comes in is the maintenance of the parks and facilities (emptying trash, cutting grass, etc.). They also provide assistance in self-help projects ranging from new equipment (lacrosse and soccer goals) to new playground equipment. These are community assets and should continue to be funded at the meager levels that they are today.

Here's a snippet of a CCT article from 2009 that truly tells the story:

“For hundreds of thousands of volunteer hours, the county taxpayers are contributing $40,000...”

Though the county’s money will make a big impact on the improvement projects, Degitz said the local councils still must raise money through registration fees and fundraisers.

For every $1 the county’s Bureau of Recreation spends on recreation council programs, Degitz said the councils spend $12. The 12 recreation councils in the county, Degitz said, raise and spend about $4.5 million annually for youth and adult sports and activities.

JoAnn, You are EXACTLY the kind of nasty sounding person that really turns people away from learning the facts associated with the Constitution. Who would want to associate with this kind of narrow and ill tempered mind set.
If your goal is to inform the public of the importance of the Constitution's intent and content, I would suggest removing the bad ass attitude that you so frequently project to almost every thread that you participate in. The bully tactic has grown old and those that respect and seek to enforce effective use of the Constitution as it relates to today's America are slowed by people like you, that seem to turn people away because of the bad ass attitude associated with all that you rant.

I don't profess to be an expert as to whether it was "the people" or "the state" that decided taxpayer money would be used for recreational use. I seem to remember Teddy Roosevelt deciding that state/federal parks were a great idea...and with much of what I see done legislatively, good intent is often the motive to expand the oversight of the "state"...putting all aside of why, when, who or how this came about is not the question....the question is where does it allow this in the Constitution....I have not been shown the article or amendment where it authorizes the state to confiscate taxpayer monies to be used for a recreational purpose. And at a time when taxpayers are literally "tapped out" it makes good sense for our executives to look at budgets rather than taxpayers to balance their obligations. IMO, what Commissioner Frazier is doing is similar to triage in an emergency room....in a crisis, you provide care for the most critically injured and others must wait....what she is doing is looking deeply at the obligations and asking a great question...Should we continue this and do we have the legal authority to continue or discontinue this as a legitimate function of the state? THIS is a great question...not one that one should be attacked over...albeit it is so far from anything we have ever thought about, but in all honesty, it is a great question in such unusual times.

There would not be an article or amendment in the Constitution that would tell the people how to give direction to the government . What you seek is not there, and yes , the government is required to fulfill the will of the people...even if it means the creation of and maintenance cost associated with public park space.

I like the idea of public input and ideas, but the legislators are bound to the Constitution, NOT what makes people feel good, nor what people think is right...the question is do they have this authority??? I cannot find where they do...I have asked that those of you who support the state using taxpayer monies for recreational use to show me where the Constitution allows the state this authority? I simply cannot find that authority....if we are to move to condense government, to trim off the tentacles, it seems to me that this is a great question made by the Commissioner.....I do recognize it is foreign to what we all have accepted as the norm, but it is a great question, and shows me that she has respect for the oath she took as well as the people's money.

The people give the government direction. It is the responsibility of the government to fulfill the direction that direction with regard to how tax dollars are spent...

If you are right then we are a Democracy.....the majority rules in a Democracy....but we are not a Democracy, we are a Republic....the legislators are NOT BOUND by the will of the majority but ARE BOUND by the constraints of the Constitution....Commissioner Frazier shows a deep understanding of this by asking this question and raising this issue....The oath I now take to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States not only impressively defines the great responsibility I assume, but suggests obedience to constitutional commands as the rule by which my official c
onduct must be guided. I shall to the best of my ability and within my sphere of duty preserve the Constitution by loyally protecting every grant of Federal power it contains, by defending all its restraints when attacked by impatience and restlessness, and by enforcing its limitations and reservations in favor of the States and the people." - Grover Cleveland

Public Parks were being initiated and paid for with tax dollars in the days of Grover Cleveland.

that may very well be true but it still does not answer where that authority lies in the Constitution to use taxpayer monies for recreational purpose....all of us know of examples of privately owned parks....Disney World is an example of a privately owned park....The upkeep, along with the expansion and integrity of many privately owned parks are done well and the public flocks to them. I personally feel that state parks are a misuse of taxpayer money and can find no where in the Constitution where the authority is....I have asked all of you who oppose Commissioner Frazier to show where her thinking is wrong and not one of you can provide this. She appears to have a solid grasp of the limited authority of the state and appears to be one Commissioner who is serious about delivering smaller, less intrusive government. I am supportive of this.....those who love nanny state behavior are very threatened by this...but the question is still where is the authority for this act of tax confiscation....I cannot find it..

I looked over the Constitution and I didn't see any amendments that the government is required to provide roads or education either. Lets do away with those also if we are supposed to go by the Constitution to decide what the governernment should provide or not provide.

Very good Mike R......just so you know, many roads are put in by private developers...and I also agree we need great changes in our approach to education...it needs some private competition...

The government provides what the taxpayers tell them to provide...taxpayer funds pay for these things. the Constitution was developed to keep the government in check when carrying out these responsibilities.

Show me where that authority is for those lawmakers to provide these things......I cannot find it.....you continue to regurgitate the same talking points but that does not make it lawful.....where in the law has this been given to the state???Or, have we just bought into this lawlessness as business as usual???

Jack Downs.....where has this Commissioner indicated that gay couples or immigrants that are here legally unwelcome??? Please provide us that proof...

Robin Frazier should get in her county paid car and drive over to the Reisterstown Regional Park just over the county line and see what a real athletic facility looks like. Her comments just show how out of touch she is with the people who live in Carroll County.

Joe Consentini....one of the first issues of business that these five Commissioners took up was the county paid cars, which BTW, they did not continue or accept....The car she drives is her own.....the previous Commissioners were not so selfless....what else do you wish to complain about????

oh, and to the Reisterstown Park....have you looked at crime statistics in Reisterstown? perhaps a smaller park and some more cops might be a better way to spend tax dollars, but heck, there's not much pizazz in protecting the life and liberty of a citizen anymore in this country....

I have kids in sports and I'm a volunteer on the FARC rec council; I personally think FARC runs a lot of good programs, with a lot of volunteers and a few government workers, who do what government should do - help remove road blocks so we can get things done, manage our framework, and provide other help as needed. Teamwork. Are the facilities as good as Howard - maybe not, but our kids are just as enthusiastic. Sure, turf fields are nice, but we don't have them. Both teams play on the same field. Yes,this is your government and your county, so get involved and help. Sitting in front of a computer complaining doesn't help near as much as volunteering to coach or manage a team of kids, or help at the library, or... There is plenty of room for everyone to help.Our kids are the next generation and they deserve the best we can do.
Asking the government for more of the money we are borrowing from China just adds to the debt our kids will have to repay, regardless of how you interpret the Constitution and the responsibilities of government. There's no reason we can't continue to do a lot of this rec work ourselves. The more we do, the more control we have over how things turn out. Besides, it's fun!
My $.02 worth.

that's an excellent post p Martin....

Where in the Constitution does it say that the government has to provide the police force? No Parks, no education, no roads , no police force. If we just go by the Constitution all of the time , the government just collects the taxes and we all get to carry guns. Sounds like an ANARCHY to me !

The role of the state can be clearly defined in documents other than the Constitution, but clearly the health, welfare and general safety of the public are mentioned. Many state constitutions specifically mention the sheriff as the peacekeeper of the state. The second amendment allows us the right to defend ourselves. What you perceive as anarchy is a free society sir....you can pay taxes until there is nothing left from your earnings for all I care...not me...I want what I was promised by the Commissioners...SMALLER GOVERNMENT....

Hey Robin
Give my share of the taxes to parks and rec!!!

Hey Joann, I heard they used your share of the taxes to fix Bixlers Church Road!!

Mike R, what are you talking about with respect to Bixler Church Rd? Explain....and as to your tax dollars, Commissioner Frazier wishes to provide to you a government where you will not have to beg where your money is spent, but rather provide to you the choice to give it to the park yourself...That elimates the "middle man"...

And I guess you believe that parks and rec have nothing to do with health and welfare.

Joann,
Tell us, what do you want your taxes to be used for, specifically?

You seem unglued....no, parks have nothing to do with my health....I can get the same exercise by taking a walk around my neighborhood....should the government take over merritt athletic? LOL!!! Now, lets get back to your remark about Bixler Church Rd. Explain your remark....

A good beginning would be to protect our borders.....

How do you know where your taxes went? Maybe to repair a road somewhere. I know you are not unglued. You have been glued to this all day. Where do you want your "county" taxes to be used? This whole discussion is about Carroll County! I don't think you mean our border with PA .

Why don't you tell me where my taxes went Mike R...you seem to be an expert or an unusually trusting person to an entity that is/has failed miserably to deliver what is promised as they confiscate my money....The unglued comment is directed to you...you are making comments about roads and my affiliation to them, and now the borders of the state which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the government funding recreational activities with taxpayer monies..are you a nut? Delusional? Hearing voices?Explain the comment.

Joann, I am telling you that you are correct. We don't know where are taxes go specifically. I also want "smaller government" but where you want to make cuts may not agree with me or many others. That is why I want to know what you want your county taxes to go to pay for, specifically?

I don't want to pay for public parks...let's begin there....I don't mind education if it had competition to improve it...I want an educational system that teaches students how to stand on their own two feet in this world..Although maryland is fairly good in education compared to other states, we are pathetic compared to other countries...at 12k per student THAT DOESN'T CUT IT!!!I get senior high school students that cannot pass simple math tests to work on a cash register. I believe we could bring many of our troops home overseas and put them here on our border. I am sickened that we give foreign aide to countries that wish to kill us..I believe that to pay for protection as in our sheriff, fire fighters and EMT's are a good place to spend our tax dollars. I DO NOT want my tax dollars to educate, house, feed and give health care to people that reside here illegally..I have my own personal beliefs on abortion and although I do not begrudge anyone who chooses this as an option I do not want my tax dollars to pay for it...similarly, I do not want schools handing out morning after pills on my dime to my minor without my permission...I could go on and on...Of course I agree that our roads and bridges should be included in our tax dollars but they are crumbling...WHY???

Robin give my tax money to parks and rec